Revered saxophonist Joshua Redman opens the 2023/24 Tisch Music Season with music from his lyrical new album where are we. Ahead of his September 27 concert, he talked with us about the project and sharing the melodic spotlight with a vocalist for the first time, his wide musical lens, taking on The Boss, and more.
You first performed at 92NY in the summer of 2022 with Bill Charlap and his trio at Jazz in July. Now you’re returning to open our 2023/24 concert season! We’re thrilled that you chose Kaufmann Concert Hall – where two of your heroes, John Coltrane and Sonny Rollins, each performed in the 1960s – for the New York premiere of your latest work.
Wow! I didn’t know that about Trane and Newk! [Coltrane and Rollins]. Before last summer, I had never been to The 92nd Street Y, but I’d heard so much about the hall for so long. It’s a legendary space, and legendary among jazz musicians. It was a thrill for me. It’s such a great room, and I can say without reservation: there’s no better sounding or feeling concert hall that I’ve played in. It’s an honor to be coming back.
You’ve called where are we “a meditation on America and the power and importance of place.” Please talk about what you wanted to express with this project.
First, ultimately any music that I play or create – and certainly any album I make – is about the music itself. The music exists and expresses itself in a world and realm that cannot – and should not – be reduced to a concept. (I tend to be pretty skeptical of concepts in music, and very skeptical when they’re my own!).
Yes, there’s a strong conceptual theme, or series of themes, that runs through this music. On the surface, every song on the album refers to a specific geographical location in the US. But it’s not like, as musicians, we’re sitting around talking about how we get to the heart of what America is. We’re making music. We’re occupying and living in the musical world, and connecting intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually with each other – and hopefully with listeners – in the language of music. So, all I would hope when people experience this music is that they come out of it feeling something or thinking about something. I don’t want to limit what those emotional and intellectual experiences might be by imposing a concept.
And yet … when we’d finished making the album, I realized that although the music was saying things in its own terms, there were messages and ideas and emotions that related to feelings about our country and our world, and the aspirations of our country and our world. The promise, but also some of the hard realities and failings and disappointments. Ultimately, it’s an album about universal human experiences – feelings of loss and longing, of hope and hurt, of leaving and returning, of romance and remembrance, all filtered through the prism of place.
In 30 years of recording as a leader, this is your first collaboration with a vocalist – Gabrielle Cavassa. Can you talk about what made this the time, Gabrielle the one, and what the experience has been like for you?
I’m glad this was the time, and I’m glad she was the one. I don’t feel it was destiny, it just happened (though I think part of the reason it happened is – there’s no chance in this world). This project was born out of the circumstance I found myself in during the pandemic – being at home, not playing music with people for a very long time. I had a lot of time on my hands – to practice, to reflect on music, to listen to music – I was going stir crazy missing the connection with other musicians, other people. So I had a lot of time to think about doing things that had always been in the back of my mind, and playing with a vocalist is something I’d always thought about doing, just never something I’d brought to the fore of my mind.
I’d heard Gabrielle’s name, but kind of strangely, the initial spark came from my manager. She texted me one night from a private party in New Orleans and said, “There’s this vocalist here, and she’s absolutely riveting. You have to hear her.” I had a lot of time on my hands then. If I’d been on the road, I might not have really focused, but I started listening to Gabrielle’s music. There was something there that really drew me in. Gabrielle has an expressive quality and an intimacy and a vulnerability in her sound that is captivating. We started talking and exchanging ideas.
How did it feel to find yourself sharing the melodic spotlight?
I love sharing the spotlight! I don’t even want it back now! One of the things I’ve relished about this project is the opportunity to escape my typical role in jazz as the lead melodic voice. I’ve always considered myself a really interactive musician, and it was exciting to explore the supportive aspect of my musical personality. As a saxophonist in this music, I’m used to being at the center of melodic attention. But it’s not what I live for musically. I live for being a part – a small part – of the greater musical whole. So this was an opportunity to step aside in a way. And ironically, in the end, I think some of my strongest lyrical, melodic playing exists on this record. When I was able to step aside, it somehow allowed me to access that in an even greater way.
You’re a musician rooted in jazz, you’re joined by an all-star jazz rhythm section, and this is your first project for Blue Note. But this music – and this concert – speaks well beyond a jazz audience, with songs by Bruce Springsteen, Sufjan Stevens, Jimmy Webb, and more, some in mashups with tunes by Coltrane, Basie, and Monk. Can you talk about your expansive view of jazz?
I’m a jazz musician. Jazz is at the center of my musical world. But I never felt that had to be an exclusive choice. I’ve always felt it part of my spirit – and that of many jazz musicians – to be open-minded and outward looking, and to draw from outside the jazz tradition for inspiration, influence, and repertoire. I’ve always played standards, but I’ve also always messed around with music from the soul/rock/pop canon – that’s nothing new for me, nothing new for a lot of jazz musicians of my generation.
Now, Bruce Springsteen is not someone whose music I ever thought I would take on – not that I don’t love and respect his music – the sound and structure are just not the type I generally think lends itself to jazz interpretation. But having Gabrielle in the mix changed that. [Exploring songs] I suggested “Streets of Philadelphia.” Gabrielle said, “No way!” I said, “No way!” Then a while later, she said, “I’m listening to the song and I’m crying, so I think we need to do it!” I started working on an arrangement. The groove, and musical color and texture and harmonies are vastly different from the original, but the core is there, largely because of the lyrics. I feel like it works, and I never thought it would.
This music covers so much territory – not just geographically, but emotionally. You open with a solo sax riff on “This Land Is Your Land” that ends in anguish, yet the unfolding mood is often one of radiance and grace. Can you share some thoughts about the emotional arc of this music?
it was very important for me to try to find the right narrative, and the right balance of light and dark and grit. The album is definitely an examination of America – not a critique, that’s too strong a word. Yet the music is definitely trying to come to terms with some of the difficulties and injustices of America. But it’s also very celebratory. There’s a sense of the American ideal, the American dream, which many would argue exists only on paper. But I would argue – though it’s not reflected for many Americans in their day-to-day lives and realities – it’s the spirit of this country, and that the American dream is something that is real. No, it hasn’t been achieved yet, but it has weight and value and significance in our lives. I love what this country is – not everything it is, but what it is and wants to be and can be. It’s a hard time for saying that, but there is certainly an embrace of hope and aspiration and promise in the music.
Finally, in examining and exploring your ideas about America, where are we? Where are you?
We are where we are. I’m not the one to make any proclamations about where we are – I think that’s a question we all need to ask ourselves. And we need to ask not just for the kneejerk, reactive response. We need to ruminate on it, a little bit or a lot, and each find our own answer.
Joshua Redman Group featuring Gabrielle Cavassa opens the 2023/24 Tisch Music Season Wednesday, September 27. Additional details here.